The Fish
for 13 October 1998. Updated every WEEKDAY.
 
 
Suck Staff
 

Joey Anuff
Joey Anuff
Editor in Chief

 

Terry Colon
Terry Colon
Art Director

 

[the fixin' pixie... ]
Emily Hobson
Production Manager
and Rhythm Guitar

 

Heather Havrilesky
Heather Havrilesky
Senior Editor

 

[Ian Connelly]
Ian Connelly
Marketing Manager

 

[Copy Edit]
Copy Edit









	
Suck Alumni
Suck Alumni Text
 

Carl Steadman
Carl Steadman
Co-Founder

 

Ana Marie Cox
Ana Marie Cox
Executive Editor

 

Sean (Duuuuude) Welch
Sean Welch
Suckgineer

 

Owen Thomas
Owen Thomas
Copy Editor

 


T. Jay Fowler

Production Manager

& Ass Kicker

 

[yes, it's a plunger. i'll l
eave the rest up to your imagination ... ]
Erin Coull
Production Manager

 

Matt Beer
Matt Beer
Development Manager

Leader of the Packaging

I enjoyed your Marilyn Manson
piece today. Recently, I
heard his transformation
compared to David Bowie's
ability in the mid-'70s to
modify his persona. This is
hard for me to swallow. MM's
logo is a blatant rip-off of
the Throbbing Gristle logo
circa 1976. His "look" is
1983 Alien Sex Fiend. The guy
doesn't have an original
thought, and doesn't let on
to his public that he
doesn't. At least Bowie got
Iggy & Lou out in front and
said, I like these guys. Same
with Luther Vandross with
Philly soul, Eno with the
English/German art rock
thang, and Austin hero Mr.
Vaughn with white-boy blues
for "Let's Dance." MM should
give credit to those he's
ripping off.

Check out the inner cover of
David Bowie's Alladin Sane
gatefold (from 1973). It's in
the Ryko CD re-release as
well. When I saw MM's latest
and greatest, I laughed.

<bolsinga@austin.metrowerks.com>

Actually, I think Manson is
fairly candid in regard to
his musical/theatrical
kleptomania; he frequently
cites Bowie as an influence,
and also the Stooges and some
others. Regarding his logo -
it's also extremely similar,
if not identical, to the logo
used on lots of electrical
equipment where there's a
high shock potential. I
wonder if the manufacturers
of such equipment ripped it
off as well; there are a lot
of secret Throbbing Gristle
fans out there.

Huck

 
Fish With Letter Icon
 

Kornheiser of the Week

Now that's smart. Good
article, just nasty enough.
Alas, and not for the first
time, the inherent
limitations of the Suck.com
style have forced you to
skate along the surface of
what cries out for a far more
detailed examination.
Nobody's fault: Suck won't
pay for a 10,000-word article
and nobody would read it
online anyway, but that's
what's needed: a nice
detailed account of how one
skates on the Zeitgeist
without either falling
through the ice or reaching
solid ground.

The obvious venue for such an
article would be a certain
Chicago-based magazine
(commodifying your descent
from heaven? how's that for
your article's title?), but
they pay even worse than
Suck. Maybe Ad Age or Marketing
Week
are actually better
choices; do it absolutely
straight-faced, as a user's
guide to marketing in the
'90s, and they may run it. Or
even Brill's - spin it as
journalistic criticism, since
there's no doubt that
journalistic coverage has
given the underlying
marketing a free ride from
day one. I'll read it
wherever it is; that was a
fine piece of work. Thanks.

Alan Kornheiser
<ASKORNHEISER@prodigy.net>

Alan,

And yet, thank goodness for
the limitations - if we
didn't have them, then I
might be forced to make good
on my threats to write a
10,000-word piece on the Real
World
....

Huck

 
Fish With Letter Icon
 

oh yes, we've all come to
appreciate the marketing
savvy of marilyn manson. the
latest ziggy-with-tits
incarnation is infinitely
more appealing than the
previous "what would satan
do?" atmospherics. let's not
forget that david bowie was
as careerist a rocker as rock
has seen. and an insightful
youth marketer if there ever
was one. that stuff doesn't
affect the music, however,
and marilyn manson's new one
is one of the best records
i've heard this year. he has
the tunes to back up the
marketing campaign. besides,
will you be so cynical when
he knocks dave matthews or
creed or third eye blind or
dishwalla or natalie
imbruglia from the charts?
what about the other dog-shit
artists that are ripping off
crapulent bands? at least
marilyn is stealing from the
best, and doing it well. in
this current climate that
might be enough for me.

Matt
<stuart@stuart-mrktg.com>

I like the record too - and,
in fact, I thought Antichrist
Superstar,
in its own way,
was also good, which is why I
think the music press'
current "he's gotten so much
better" angle is a little
mechanical....

Huck

 
Fish With Letter Icon
 

Isn't it ironic that Marilyn
Manson can garner praise for
being exactly what the
Lewinsky scandal is -
titillating bathroom
sensationalism? For a
bastardized offspring of
Alice Cooper and Bananarama
you'd think that said
musicians would have earned
similar odes back in their
own day. (Well, OK, maybe
not Bananarama.) And the
Religious Right never held
any punches when it came to
the Dead Kennedys. But I
suppose The Great Forbidden
wasn't so popular then.

It's rather sad that this
country hungrily devours not
decent music, but hype,
tripe, and taboo. While
Manson may have the
best-selling album in the
country, that doesn't say
much - isn't Michael Bolton
still on the top-selling
charts?

You'll find countless
13-year-olds in chat rooms
across the Internet happily
typing in "I am the god of
fuck" repeatedly, going to
mom to ask if they can dye
their hair, shopping at Hot
Topic, etc. I'll be so happy
when the country gets over
its identity crisis and moves
on.

Perhaps next year it'll be
the Genitorturers.

<nachtgeist@mindspring.com>

Well, I think Alice Cooper
arrived before his opponents
had really developed their
apparatus for fighting such
demons. And the Dead
Kennedys, as simplistic as
their diatribes often were,
were still probably far too
complex to be digested in any
mass way. It's no doubt a lot
easier for a 13-year-old to
grasp the concept underlying
"I am the god of fuck" than
"Holiday in Cambodia." But
I'm actually enjoying all the
various instantiations of the
mallternative nation,
including Manson, and I'm
looking forward to where the
culture goes from here -
maybe the Genitorturers will
indeed provide the soundtrack
as the rebellion envelope
gets pushed from tattoos and
piercing to trepanning,
amputation, and other extreme
body modification techniques.

Huck

 
Fish With Letter Icon
 

Clown Act

Enjoyed today's piece a lot.
But is Clinton any more or
less complicitous than anyone
else right now? Thanks for
informing on that Safe School
Act - an awe-inspiring piece
of pork that makes me realize
I'm really not worthy to be
an American.

Ted Sturk
<ted@mail.light.on.ca>

Jesus - it's worse than we
thought. It's ineffective,
it's a waste of money ... and
it exposes us as a nation to
the perils of Canadian
sarcasm.

What was Congress thinking?

Ambrose Beers

 
Fish With Letter Icon
 

Though I laugh with you at
the silliness of the
anti-drug programs, and
though I also know that DARE
has never - never - been
shown to work, yet I wonder
at those who rightfully
condemn our anti-drug
programs but have no
sensible, proven alternative
to offer. Do we just say: Do
what the fuck you want?
Legalize drugs? Another way
of saying: it is not enough
to condemn a program. You
need to offer something one
cannot laugh at in its place.
If you ain't part of the
solution, you're part of the
problem - remember that
nugget?

Me
<flap@mindspring.com>

Well, how 'bout this
two-pronged approach:

1.) Drugs are illegal. Get
caught with them, by cops who
respect the law themselves
and are not overly intrusive
or abusive, and you'll be
punished in a measured,
reasonable way, in accordance
with thoughtful laws authored
by legislators who have a
sense of priorities, of
restraint.

2.) Absolutes are
unobtainable. Some people
will use illegal drugs and
get away with it, and we
accept that catching all of
them, or preventing all of
them from using, costs more -
in money, in freedom, in
energy, and attention - than
it's worth. Recognizing that
people who get caught will
probably have done something
to bring attention to themselves,
caught stealing to support
a habit, say. So people who
don't get caught are more
often paying for drugs with
their own money, buying from
a dealer they know rather
than buying on the street
corner where your kids play,
and continuing to function at
least well enough to carry
their responsibilities at
work and at home. And, if
not, it's their failure.

Now, really, what's wrong
with that? Why this ferocity
about being absolutely pure?
A drug-free country? Of
course not. Big deal. I'm
deeply confused by the notion
that we can legislate and
police every bit of pain and
discomfort, every overdose
and addiction and lost job,
away. So my solution is:
There isn't a solution. And
that doesn't bother me at
all.

impure,
Ambrose Beers

 
Fish With Letter Icon
 

Leader of the Packaging

I would like to propose to
the satanist teens of America
that we fire Marilyn Manson
and get a new mascot, one
who's halfway talented. Rob
Zombie or something. Pass the
word on.

Oh, and I'm really pissed off
about that comic about
halfway down the page where
the guy's staring at the
packaging and throwing out
the CD. This is OBVIOUSLY a
rip-off of that Calvin and
Hobbes
strip. I can't believe
Suck would stoop so low as to
steal from Bill Watterson.
The Pope reading baseball
scores?

Incidentally, Mechanical
Animals is infected with a
Macintosh virus. Really:
http://www17.pair.com/macnn/
cgi-bin/searchs.pl?terms=autostart

<mcclure111@earthlink.net>

Do you think the virus is the
diabolical work of Andy
Grove? Maybe he can be the
teens' new mascot.

As for stealing from Bill
Watterson, that's Terry's
department. I limit my
pilferage to Erma Bombeck,
Bob Greene, and George Jean
Nathan.

Regards,

Huck

 
Fish With Letter Icon
 

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