The Fish
for 17 March 1998. Updated every WEEKDAY.
Suck Staff

Joey Anuff
Joey Anuff
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[the fixin' pixie... ]
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Ian Connelly
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[Copy Edit]
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Ana Marie Cox
Ana Marie Cox
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Sean Welch


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T. Jay Fowler

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& Ass Kicker


[yes, it's a plunger. i'll l
eave the rest up to your imagination ... ]
Erin Coull
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Matt Beer
Matt Beer
Development Manager

Hanging Judge

Great story today on the
ridiculousness of the
"child-porn" witch hunts, but
I'm appalled by your glaring
omission: the middle of the
night knock on the door in
Oklahoma City, picking up
that major threat to our
entire civilization, The Tin
Three minutes max of
sex between 16-year-olds,
and the entire movie on the
excesses of Nazi Germany is
canned. See the Oklahoma
Department of Libraries site
freedom.htm for a
good rundown of exactly how
ridiculous it is.

Yours in Freedom,

Steve Beach, Penn State University, Experimental Particle Astrophysics

Thanks, Steve.
Look on the bright side:
Maybe that midnight knock on
the door was from real Nazis
who didn't want people
learning about their
"excesses" (I've heard those
Nazis could be pretty
excessive from time to time).

yr pal,


Fish With Letter Icon

Good piece, Bartel.
Two comments:
1. Neil Postman lost it for me in
Technopoly but his
Disappearance of Childhood is
still right on the money.

His argument in a paragraph:

Childhood as we nostalgize it
was a creation of mass
literacy. Pre-Gutenberg,
kids had a good idea what
their parents did in the
hovel. When people got rich
enough for some privacy, kids
had to learn to read to
discover what the monks and
nuns were up to. Now that the
aliterate society is here,
kids are huddled around the
electronic campfire, watching
the grown-ups cavort just
like 1399....

2. And that cite to Logan's Run could
have also mentioned Wild in
the Streets.
I remember the
last scene when Max brushes
off a kid and the kid turns
to his buddy, "When I get
older, we're gonna put
everybody over 12 out of
business." (Or similar. It
was 30 years ago and I was
standing too close to the chillum.)

From the IMDB Plot
Summary for Wild in the Streets (1968):

Max Frost, a 24-year-old rock star
millionaire, joins causes
with a California politician
to get the vote for 15-year-
olds. He continues his master
plan by helping elect one of
his groupies to the Senate.
Max and his cohorts resort to
trickery to get Congress to
lower the minimum age
requirements for higher
office, and he's on his way
to the Oval Office with his
youth-controlled police state agenda

(Summary by Ed Sutton)

Max Flatow is a precocious,
social miscreant who has a
way with homemade explosives.
When he tires of these, he
runs away from home only to
emerge seven years later as
Max Frost, the world's most
popular entertainer. When
Congressman John Fergus uses
Frost as a political ploy to
gain the youth vote in his
run for the Senate, Frost
wills himself into the
system, gaining new rights
for the young. Eventually,
Frost runs for the
presidency. Winning in a
landslide, he issues his
first presidential edict: All
oldsters are required to live
in "retirement homes" where
they are forced to ingest
LSD, taking the '60s catch
phrase "Never trust anyone
over 30" to its
most extreme consequences.

(Summary written by Rick Gregory)

Richard Baer, LRC Supervisor, Abu Dhabi Men's College

1) One of the two times I met
Neil Postman, I was
accompanying a friend who
wanted to beg him for some
sort of academic favor or
appointment. Neil had one of
those little green editions
of the New Testament/Psalms
and Proverbs "left by the
Gideons." He chewed on the
end of it throughout our
conversation. The other time
I met him was at a funeral,
but I still like his brand of
lone-prophet sophistry.

2) Isn't it strange how
yesterday's nightmare film is
today's wish-fulfillment
fantasy? Nothing would make
me happier than to have these
young idlers lock me away and
stuff me full of acid.

yr pal,


Fish With Letter Icon

Hanging Judge

I read with interest your piece
on the portrayal of children,
but your views appeared
confused on the issue of the
sexuality of young children.

The issue of the portrayal of
children must be considered
separately from the issue of
sexual activity with

While I quite agree
that the portrayal of
children in the American
media is often based on false
ideas of "innocence," and is
often horrifically gloopy, I
do not draw a parallel
between such portrayals and
sexual activity with

Sexual activity between
adults and children
is not wrong because of some
unchanging physical law - but
in Western societies, as they
are currently constituted,
there can be no justification
for it. In the time of
Socrates, there was a general
acceptance that homosexual
relationships between men and
boys (and more rarely, women
and girls) was a perfectly
normal stage of sexual
development. That this is not
the case now does not mean
that the modern era is more
hypocritical or less relaxed
than the Hellenes were. It
merely reflects a differing morality.

Children in the
modern era are not taught
that sex between them and an
older adult is normal, or
that it is right. Indeed, in
many countries, they are not
taught about sex at all until
a relatively advanced age.
Also, the physical process of
sexual maturity rules out the
possibility of procreative
sex until a certain age.

The lack of societal approval of
adult-child sexuality, and
the assumption drilled into
children that adults are
generally to be obeyed, means
that the reaction of children
to adult-child sexual
activity is utter devastation
- the loss of all behavioral
reference points. The large
numbers of alleged victims
bandied around by groups with
axes to grind do not make
less the suffering caused to
the relatively small number
of people who are the victims
of abuse. Similarly, the
younging-down of sexuality
in advertising, etc., whether
one agrees or not, will not
mean that adult-child sexual
relations are OK - there are
still too many taboos against
it for it not to have a
harmful effect on the child.
Abusus non tollit usum, as
they say.

I hasten to add
that I am not accusing you of
supporting child sex abuse,
or even of drawing invalid
parallels between younging-
down and abuse - but I did
think that your article did
not make the distinction very clear.

Anthony Zachary, Department of Health,
HM Government, London.

I don't even support sex between
consenting adults, A. Z., let
alone sex between adults and
children. But as you seem to
agree, a large portion of
advertising is a child
molester's wet dream. That
doesn't mean we should be
copying the Greeks (look what
happened to them), but it
does make you wonder.

yr pal,

Fish With Letter Icon

Many thanks for your 3
March Suck article, "Hanging
Judge." Mostly, I was glad to
see that there is someone
else who recognizes that
those evil pedophiles lurking
in our midst are not simply
mental misfits with too many
screws loose, but are truly
products of our deranged
culture that continually
presents the sexless,
childlike body as the
titillating sexual ideal.
Working at a university chock
full of supposed intellectual
elites, one assumes this fact
would at least be more
apparent to those lucky
enough to be educated in our
society, but I have certainly
not found this to be the
case. In fact, I was worried
I was just becoming old,
crotchety, and unyielding in
my views.

(Well, I may still
be old, crotchety, and
unyielding, but at least
someone agrees with me on at
least one point.)

Cheryl Klimaszewski

Thanks, Cheryl.
It turns out that those evil
pedophiles really are mental
misfits with too many screws
loose, and that our culture
is, in fact, deranged. You
may be old, crotchety, and
unyielding, but I know for a
fact that I have a sexless,
childlike body.

So it all works out in the end.

yr pal,

Fish With Letter Icon

I'm wasted.... Is
there any paperwork for me to
receive? Why won't anyone
contact me? I am looking for

$1.84 aliens kick ass

Derek Dangelo

Derek, I'm naked....
Has anyone seen my
lactose pads? Why isn't
anyone looking at my
physique? I need a friend.

fr 11 teletubbies rock BarTel

Fish With Letter Icon

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