The Fish
for 19 September 2000. Updated every WEEKDAY.
 
[Suck Staff]
 

[Tim Cavanaugh]
Tim Cavanaugh
Special Guest Editor

 

[Terry Colon]
Terry Colon
Art Director

 

[Heather Havrilesky]
Heather Havrilesky
Senior Editor

 

[Phillip Bailey]
Phillip Bailey
Production Editor

 

[Joey Anuff]
Joey Anuff
Publisher

 
 
 
 
[Go to the Suck Alumni page]
Team-Agers

Wow - Seems to me the Quest Archetype pre-dates even the Bad News Bears by a couple of thousand years, and even Walter Matthau wasn't THAT old. Judging by box office hauls, the more obvious the basic plot premise the better, since audiences shouldn't really be bothered to keep track - we're all familiar with the premise, it's the window dressing that counts. Have times really changed so much since Homer gave us the first miniseries, or since Krishna bestowed upon Lord Arjuna some really dope moves in the original Smackdown?

<Jeff.Johnson@branders.com>

Thanks for the tip, Jeff. I'll have to go down to the Goodwill and pick up a paperback of Man and His Symbols so I can look up this "Walter Matthau." Was he a character in that new Star Wars? I ask because I can tell you're a buff.

I enjoyed the self-consciously common man touch to your hip talk. Do you teach a course in Joseph Campbell at a community college? If you do, you must really get through to the students. Be careful passing out the free marijuana to the co-eds!

Counting the window dressing,

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

The Colossus of Ceylon, Minnesota

Devastating! Beautiful and horrifyingly accurate! I am old enough to remember the first Eisenhower-Stevenson contest. In comparison to what's happened since then, their debates seem like those of Gladstone and Disraeli. In 1968, I refused to vote for Humphrey as a protest against the war and the treatment of demonstrators at the Democratic convention. But several years later, while I was living in Frankfurt I heard him interviewed on AFN and realized he was a real statesman by what had come to be the going standards of American politics. Mondale, of course, was Humphrey's protˇgˇ but something of the messianic side of the New Deal continued to survive in HHH, even if he compromised himself utterly by rubberstamping LBJ's policies in Vietnam. Thanks for the best moment of the day!

Best wishes,

David Clayton <daveclayton@worldnet.att.net>

One of the better arguments for establishing a monarchy right here in the U.S. of A. is that the right female ruler might be able to bring out the Gladstone and Disraeli in our Wellstones and Kerreys, the same way a competitive love interest can add interest to a lame third-year TV sitcom.

The stature thing is another interesting way to go, though.

Best,

40th Street Black

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

I loved this sentence: "Both candidates, in the final analysis, would make fine special envoys to Indonesia." It perfectly summarizes this year's election.

I recently saw a bumper sticker (if so inclined, you can pray for me now): "If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."

Yup.

Rob McMillin
<rlm@pricegrabber.com>

Thanks for your note. I'm on vacation, and one night in a fine sports-memorabilia bar in a strip mall the Bill Maher-style question, "Would you give up your right to vote if it meant you no longer had to pay your taxes?" fell out of someone's mouth.

I was distracted by the vintage Iron Maiden videos being played on VH1's "Bad Ass" Countdown, but I think the only person who wouldn't consider it may not even be registered right now.

Best

40th Street Black

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Yeah, but Eleanor Mondale sure is hot.

Terrific column, as usual. How's tricks?

Becca
<CommieGirl@Flashcom.net>

In the spirit of the season... dirty!

40th Street Black

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Team-Agers

You may be right about the content of the movies ("Team-agers", 9/11), but the fact that someone like James Garner is working at all says volumes about Hollywood's viewpoint on actresses: that is, they're disposable after they hit 35. Acting gigs for older women are much rarer than those for older men. Cameron Diaz may be in shape now, but where will she be in 15 years?

Rob McMillin
<rlm@pricegrabber.com>

Uh, married to Oliver Stone? No? Well, I can't predict Cameron Diaz's career trajectory, but you have a point, Rob. However, my piece wasn't about the failure of Hollywood to deal with actresses over 40. It's clear that not only can't Hollywood figure out what to do with women who don't look like they're in their early twenties, they also don't have the slightest idea what to do with women who don't conform to a model that could star in a movie version of Charlie's Angels, Jeanne Garafalo notwithstanding. Anyway, groups of golden girls have largely been the province of TV. Maybe when Diaz, et al., get older they can star in a film version of The Snoop Sisters. Renee Zellweger and Sandra Bullock aren't just America's current sweethearts, they're also the future Mildred Natwick and Helen Hayes.

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Mr Car,

A few quick notes on todays column for your personal growth:

Due to my incarceration this summer (it's not as cool as OZ) most of your piece was lost on me. BUT, let me tell you the spirit of it hit home. You know it's always us against the lousy screws in here. Sure as shit if we don't hang together, we hang alone. It is hard to keep up that comradery when someone will shiv you for a 40oz of raisin jack.

So if you don't mind I'll be recommending your web site to my homeys. I'm sure I'll have no trouble getting them to go to something called www.suck.com. If you could next time think of starting off with more of a bang or some pictures of Anna Paquin or George Clooney. Also an article entitled "The Love That Dare Not Speak its Name" might grab them too.

Geek Boy?

Your Fan,

Joe <Joseph_Iacovelli@rsausa.com>

PS: What if the cast of U571 switch casts with that team work gem Chicken Run.

Thanks for your letter! Have a cup of toilet bowl wine on me! And I can't believe I forgot Chicken Run in my roundup. I guess along with young women, animated farm animals can succeed where old men fail, too. Whatever the implications of that, I definitely won't be following up on them. I leave that to you and your pals in lockdown.

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Space suits aren't all that different from football uniforms; the superhero costumes in X-Men are rubberized hybrids of the outfits

that gwar wear when teenage girls are ritually sacrificed to their rock cocks. meanwhile a strange green substances born out of the ancient rock recovered from the sea bed twists and deformes itself into words desperately reaching for a foothold, slipping, mimicking, crackling as it pulls over the tines of a fork seeking to clone the regenerator G2.

you will be destroyed.

c. maan
<cmaan@julian.uwo.ca>

Thanks for the reminder, C. Sometimes I forget to pay my credit card bills on time, so it's great that you guys call up to remind me. Boy, I wish I had a job like yours!

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Dear Slotcar Hatebath,

Thanks for the insightful commentary on this latest group of Hollywood movies. Mainstream films are often entertaining for the messages that they unintentionally send. John Waters said that Showgirls was a very funny movie, but Joe Eszterhas doesn't appear to be in on the joke. On a related topic, it occurs to me that the tone of my e-mail has been really unnecessarily harsh. What I thought was a clever response on reflection looks mean and sarcastic. I don't always agree with the things I read in Suck, but that's no excuse for attacking a persons character. So, to you sir, I offer this apology.

Sincerely,

Mike Chicchelly
<mikeamy@stratos.net>

Thank you for sending in John Waters' opinion about Showgirls, a statement which has been trumpeted around like it's actually interesting since that film came out. But you know what, Michael? I don't give a rat's behind about what John Waters has to say. You know who said something interesting? Freud. He said that on the subconscious level, there are no accidents. This applies to mainstream films, Joe Eszterhas, and to e-mail from you. Thanks for reading.

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

This is the best critique of recent trends in the film industry that I have read in a while. I am forwarding the article to several people in my office. Please keep up the good work.

Michael Goldstein
<m.goldstein@basicentertainment. com>

I don't like the word critique. I like the word criticism. A critique is college sophomores sitting in a circle trying to find not entirely mean ways to tell each other that their poetry stinks. Having said that, I still think you and your office-mates should go outside, sit in the grass, and get in a circle during your lunch hour and discuss my article as a group. I give you permission to print out copies and distribute them to everyone there.

Tell them not to pull any punches. Thanks for reading!

Slotcar Hatebath

Team-Agers

Wow - Seems to me the Quest Archetype pre-dates even the Bad News Bears by a couple of thousand years, and even Walter Matthau wasn't THAT old. Judging by box office hauls, the more obvious the basic plot premise the better, since audiences shouldn't really be bothered to keep track - we're all familiar with the premise, it's the window dressing that counts. Have times really changed so much since Homer gave us the first miniseries, or since Krishna bestowed upon Lord Arjuna some really dope moves in the original Smackdown?

<Jeff.Johnson@branders.com>

Thanks for the tip, Jeff. I'll have to go down to the Goodwill and pick up a paperback of Man and His Symbols so I can look up this "Walter Matthau." Was he a character in that new Star Wars? I ask because I can tell you're a buff.

I enjoyed the self-consciously common man touch to your hip talk. Do you teach a course in Joseph Campbell at a community college? If you do, you must really get through to the students. Be careful passing out the free marijuana to the co-eds!

Counting the window dressing,

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

The Colossus of Ceylon, Minnesota

Devastating! Beautiful and horrifyingly accurate! I am old enough to remember the first Eisenhower-Stevenson contest. In comparison to what's happened since then, their debates seem like those of Gladstone and Disraeli. In 1968, I refused to vote for Humphrey as a protest against the war and the treatment of demonstrators at the Democratic convention. But several years later, while I was living in Frankfurt I heard him interviewed on AFN and realized he was a real statesman by what had come to be the going standards of American politics. Mondale, of course, was Humphrey's protˇgˇ but something of the messianic side of the New Deal continued to survive in HHH, even if he compromised himself utterly by rubberstamping LBJ's policies in Vietnam. Thanks for the best moment of the day!

Best wishes,

David Clayton <daveclayton@worldnet.att.net>

One of the better arguments for establishing a monarchy right here in the U.S. of A. is that the right female ruler might be able to bring out the Gladstone and Disraeli in our Wellstones and Kerreys, the same way a competitive love interest can add interest to a lame third-year TV sitcom.

The stature thing is another interesting way to go, though.

Best,

40th Street Black

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

I loved this sentence: "Both candidates, in the final analysis, would make fine special envoys to Indonesia." It perfectly summarizes this year's election.

I recently saw a bumper sticker (if so inclined, you can pray for me now): "If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."

Yup.

Rob McMillin
<rlm@pricegrabber.com>

Thanks for your note. I'm on vacation, and one night in a fine sports-memorabilia bar in a strip mall the Bill Maher-style question, "Would you give up your right to vote if it meant you no longer had to pay your taxes?" fell out of someone's mouth.

I was distracted by the vintage Iron Maiden videos being played on VH1's "Bad Ass" Countdown, but I think the only person who wouldn't consider it may not even be registered right now.

Best

40th Street Black

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Yeah, but Eleanor Mondale sure is hot.

Terrific column, as usual. How's tricks?

Becca
<CommieGirl@Flashcom.net>

In the spirit of the season... dirty!

40th Street Black

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Team-Agers

You may be right about the content of the movies ("Team-agers", 9/11), but the fact that someone like James Garner is working at all says volumes about Hollywood's viewpoint on actresses: that is, they're disposable after they hit 35. Acting gigs for older women are much rarer than those for older men. Cameron Diaz may be in shape now, but where will she be in 15 years?

Rob McMillin
<rlm@pricegrabber.com>

Uh, married to Oliver Stone? No? Well, I can't predict Cameron Diaz's career trajectory, but you have a point, Rob. However, my piece wasn't about the failure of Hollywood to deal with actresses over 40. It's clear that not only can't Hollywood figure out what to do with women who don't look like they're in their early twenties, they also don't have the slightest idea what to do with women who don't conform to a model that could star in a movie version of Charlie's Angels, Jeanne Garafalo notwithstanding. Anyway, groups of golden girls have largely been the province of TV. Maybe when Diaz, et al., get older they can star in a film version of The Snoop Sisters. Renee Zellweger and Sandra Bullock aren't just America's current sweethearts, they're also the future Mildred Natwick and Helen Hayes.

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Mr Car,

A few quick notes on todays column for your personal growth:

Due to my incarceration this summer (it's not as cool as OZ) most of your piece was lost on me. BUT, let me tell you the spirit of it hit home. You know it's always us against the lousy screws in here. Sure as shit if we don't hang together, we hang alone. It is hard to keep up that comradery when someone will shiv you for a 40oz of raisin jack.

So if you don't mind I'll be recommending your web site to my homeys. I'm sure I'll have no trouble getting them to go to something called www.suck.com. If you could next time think of starting off with more of a bang or some pictures of Anna Paquin or George Clooney. Also an article entitled "The Love That Dare Not Speak its Name" might grab them too.

Geek Boy?

Your Fan,

Joe <Joseph_Iacovelli@rsausa.com>

PS: What if the cast of U571 switch casts with that team work gem Chicken Run.

Thanks for your letter! Have a cup of toilet bowl wine on me! And I can't believe I forgot Chicken Run in my roundup. I guess along with young women, animated farm animals can succeed where old men fail, too. Whatever the implications of that, I definitely won't be following up on them. I leave that to you and your pals in lockdown.

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Space suits aren't all that different from football uniforms; the superhero costumes in X-Men are rubberized hybrids of the outfits

that gwar wear when teenage girls are ritually sacrificed to their rock cocks. meanwhile a strange green substances born out of the ancient rock recovered from the sea bed twists and deformes itself into words desperately reaching for a foothold, slipping, mimicking, crackling as it pulls over the tines of a fork seeking to clone the regenerator G2.

you will be destroyed.

c. maan
<cmaan@julian.uwo.ca>

Thanks for the reminder, C. Sometimes I forget to pay my credit card bills on time, so it's great that you guys call up to remind me. Boy, I wish I had a job like yours!

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

Dear Slotcar Hatebath,

Thanks for the insightful commentary on this latest group of Hollywood movies. Mainstream films are often entertaining for the messages that they unintentionally send. John Waters said that Showgirls was a very funny movie, but Joe Eszterhas doesn't appear to be in on the joke. On a related topic, it occurs to me that the tone of my e-mail has been really unnecessarily harsh. What I thought was a clever response on reflection looks mean and sarcastic. I don't always agree with the things I read in Suck, but that's no excuse for attacking a persons character. So, to you sir, I offer this apology.

Sincerely,

Mike Chicchelly
<mikeamy@stratos.net>

Thank you for sending in John Waters' opinion about Showgirls, a statement which has been trumpeted around like it's actually interesting since that film came out. But you know what, Michael? I don't give a rat's behind about what John Waters has to say. You know who said something interesting? Freud. He said that on the subconscious level, there are no accidents. This applies to mainstream films, Joe Eszterhas, and to e-mail from you. Thanks for reading.

Slotcar Hatebath

 
[Mr. McFeely Speedy Delivery My Ass]
 

This is the best critique of recent trends in the film industry that I have read in a while. I am forwarding the article to several people in my office. Please keep up the good work.

Michael Goldstein
<m.goldstein@basicentertainment. com>

I don't like the word critique. I like the word criticism. A critique is college sophomores sitting in a circle trying to find not entirely mean ways to tell each other that their poetry stinks. Having said that, I still think you and your office-mates should go outside, sit in the grass, and get in a circle during your lunch hour and discuss my article as a group. I give you permission to print out copies and distribute them to everyone there.

Tell them not to pull any punches. Thanks for reading!

Slotcar Hatebath

 The Shit
Krushchev Remembers, by Nikita Krushchev (authorship disputed), translated by Strobe Talbott
Five-Star Day Cafe
Athens, Ga.
Salon's "Action Figures"
TV ad
Donna's Famous "Long and Short of It," by Donna Anderson and friends
Two-Lane Blacktop, directed by Monte Hellman (The Anchor Bay/Universal letterboxed edition)
George Bush, Dark Prince of Love: A Presidential Romance, by Lydia Millet (Scribner)
King Kong: The Complete 1933 Film Score, by Max Steiner Moscow Symphony Orchestra, William J. Stromberg conductor (Marco Polo)
Eightball #20, by Dan Clowes (Fantagraphics Books)
The ECW's Little Spike Dudley
Stan Kenton, City of Glass, featuring arrangements by legendary weirdo Bob Graettinger (EMD/Blue Note)
Comix 2000, Edited and published by L'Association, 2000
Star Dudes
Do you know of stuff that doesn't actively suck? Things so good they deserve to make the Shitlist? Send your suggestions to us.

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