The Fish
for 8 June 2000. Updated every WEEKDAY.
Suck Staff

[Tim Cavanaugh]
Tim Cavanaugh
Special Guest Editor


Terry Colon
Terry Colon
Art Director


Heather Havrilesky
Senior Editor


[Phillip Bailey]
Phillip Bailey
Production Editor


Joey Anuff
Joey Anuff

Suck Alumni
Suck Alumni Text

Subject: Poor white female

Hee haw! Isn't a riot making
fun of poor, female, old
people (well, the white ones,
in any case)! Their cretinous
literary tastes and their
obvious allegiance to "George
Dubya" makes them fish in a
barrel! But how about a poke
and a prod at another
sub-demographic? Let's
say...thirtyish, white, male,
Ivy League-and- just-below-
educated, pop-culturally
overattuned, smarmy,
sarcastic, helplessly ironic,
faux-Harvard Lampoonish
smartasses? The kind of guys
who in their dreams rise to
be David Foster Wallace, but
wake up to write snarky rips
on Matthew Barney for a
clunky online late-nineties
version of Spy?

I would have to say those
dweebs are at least as
risible as Aunt Edna chewing
that plain donut.

Matthew D. Wilder

Yeah, the point of that
cartoon was pretty much to
put poor old females in their
place. I just love taking
cheap shots at regular folks
without much money who aren't
much interested in the
Internet. Those old people
sure do get my goat!
Somebody's gotta put 'em in
their place!

They were the heroes of that
cartoon, understand? They
came, they scoffed, they ate
doughnuts, they left.

Who are these thirtyish white
males of which you speak and
why do they bother you so?


Fish With Letter Icon

Subject: The New Millenium
and Rev Bonnell...

After perusing your site and
coming across the letter
addressing this new year as
not really being the start of
the new millenium, I actually
started to think. With much
straining, some questions
came to mind. If Jesus was
not considered "King" until
the moment of birth, then
what was he before he so
carelessly shot out of his
mothers virgin vagina and
entered this world? Was he
but just another nameless
fetus? And doesn't that idea
contradict the belief of the
pro-lifers regarding life
starting at conception?
Wouldn't the Catholic Church
now be stating that Christ
was not a real or valid life
during his fetus period?
Would it now be okay to have
an abortion because life does
not begin until the moment of
birth? Shouldn't the Church
rethink this whole theory
thing about the millenium? Or
is it that Jesus was god when
he was concieved and during
his awkward fetus period, he
just wasn't an ordained king
until birth. Like his birth
was some sort of initiation
into royalty? Well, my honest
opinion is that the christian
church is the most dangerous
organization in the world
today and does more harm to
individual lives than good
anyway, so who gives a fuck
what they all think!!! They
have mutilated the truths to
be found in the Bible with
all their prejudices and
holier than thou
misinterpretations. I don't
think any of us common folk
will ever know for certain
what the Bible really says
until we learn to decifer the
original manuscripts
ourselves. Until then we're
supposed to blindly trust a
bunch of religious bigots who
want to brainwash and convert
us with their lies and
religious hogwash. Obviously,
I've had some problems with
the church. And as a gay man,
I can proudly say "fuck the
whole lot of them and not in
a good way either"! Why
doesn't the good Rev
KHBonnell get off his holy
ass and spend his time trying
to help his fellow man
instead of judging and
pointing out their
weaknesses, downfalls, and
mistakes. Oh, I forgot, it's
probably all part of his
brainwashing technique. Make
you feel like your a bad
person for just being who you
are. That way, he can move in
for the kill... "but Jesus
loves you anyway and he'll
forgive you for $10 donations
each week in church you
pathetic little sinners you".
Enough said. With love,
SuperBitterSuperFag PS No,
I'm not bitter and jealous
just because everyone else
gets to go to heaven and I
have to burn in hell for
loving another human being
unconditionally. I had a
vision from God himself the
other day and he told me it's
the other way around. All the
gay people are going to
heaven and the breeders are
going to hell. The only
reason he keeps you worthless
breeders around is to make
more fags for His Kingdom!
Stick that chapter in your
Bible and pray about it.


Mr. andcats,

It's good that you've
actually started to think,
but do you really imagine the
nickel-and-dime sophistries
you're pulling out here are
things the Catholics haven't
heard before? When an
organization has a 1,500-year
monopoly on the best minds in
Europe — particularly
when those are 1,500 years
during which pretty much
nothing is discovered or
invented and there wasn't
much to do except rethink
ideas that had already been
thought — it's a good bet
that they will have
considered every pud-pulling
permutation you can think up,
in infinitely greater
dimension than your busy life
as a visionary
SuperBitterSuperFag allows
time for. As it happens,
there is a long, long history
of Church gibberish about
when the soul of an unborn
human becomes active —
beginning from Aristotle's
conjecture about fetuses'
having vegetative life at
conception, animal souls
after a few days, and
rational souls after 40 days
(80 days for females). We
also have the theory of St.
Gregory of Nyssa about a life
principle that quickens the
organism from the first
moment of its individual
existence. And much other
hokum about the Will of the
Creator, Who is ever present
at every portion of His
creation. And so on and on,
through theories that are
infinitely crazier and more
complex than what you've come
up with. So be careful about
underestimating your
opponents, especially when
most of them are apparently
gay anyway.

Fish With Letter Icon

Subject: The Bull Hath Shat

Dearest Sucksters,

Disregard my previous e-mail
(Subject: "The Bungholes are
at it again")

Sorry about this. I just had
a newsletter editor to whom I
forwarded this (as I did to
you earlier), report back
that it's an urban legend
hoax. My source was a Newline
Cinema producer friend.
Shoulda known those film
people are notoriously
umkempt in the resources
checking department.

Paranoid repub-hater that I
am, I was all too willing to
believe they were at it
again, and needed Suck to
pants them. Never mind.

Illustrious regards,

Calfie Golden


[Deleted: Long official-
looking message detailing
long-time urban legend about
a "government plan" to charge
5 cents for every email]

Lene Horn

Thanks for the alert, Lene.
It's letters like yours that
have inspired our new letters
policy. It's just not fair
that every nincompoop gets to
use the Fish page to sound
off about every fool thing
under the sun, when our
advertisers have to pay good
money to publish their own
messages. Therefore, from now
on we will be charging fifty
cents a word for every letter
we publish in the fish page.
Letters that are particularly
boring and idiotic will cost
$1.50 per word. If you want
us to write a response to
your letter, an additional
charge of $300 will be
applied, regardless of the
length of the response we
write. We hope you like this
new system, which will ensure
that our readers only have to
read the opinions of those
letter-writers with enough
commitment to put their money
where their mouths are. Now
keep those cards and letters

Fish With Letter Icon

Subject: Re: Bees Status: U

Is there any wood near the
clothesline? It could also be
a Borer bee which are
harmless. We have them where
I am on Long Island. They
kind of look like Bumblebees
but at not as big. Debbie

I know there's at least one
beekeeper on the list. Maybe
you can tell my mom and I
what's going on with this
bee. <grin> Each time
we're outside, this bee is
hovering in the same spot
between the clotheslines and
it never seems to leave or go
anywhere else. If we walk by,
it moves out of our way. If
another bee comes near it, it
chases the "intruder" away.
Then it returns to hovering.
Any idea what this means?
Could it be attracted to the
somewhat flowery smell of the
laundry detergent? Is it some
kind of "scout" or "guard"
bee that's watching out for
the hive? (We've never come
across a hive nearby.) Just
wondering. Hope everyone has
a great day!

Janice, Pavi and Pansy

New York All Breed Referral

Phoebe's Story-Help End Puppymills

Deborah Foray

Thanks, Deborah! In the
interest of furthering
popular scientific
discussion, and as a special
exception to our new rule, we
will publish all letters
about bees and puppymills
free of charge. Keep 'em

Fish With Letter Icon

Haw Haw Haw

Subject: Jack Chick

I know he's mistaken &
fanatical, but like those X
Files minions say, " The
Truth is out there! " Your
paranoia is as pervasive
alien stories in Roswell. I
only hope that you can look
past your bias to see what is

Shawn Jenkins

Don't look at us, Mr.
Jenkins! There's a lost soul
named rickandcats who needs
the power of prayer to cure
his homosexuality. Show him
the way!

Fish With Letter Icon


Not to fall in line, but I
couldn't help noticing the
giant stream of hatemail you
seem to receive. Just out of
curiosity, why the fuck are
these people reading Suck?
I'm doubtful as to whether
they are forced into it.
Surely they must have a hand
in their own I-wish-I-had-
something-to- bitch-about
bullshit. Do they just search
for things to tear down? Were
they tricked into reading
your columns? Surely they
don't mistake it for news or
a refreshing self-esteem
zine. It seems odd to me why
someone would willfully
subject themselves to
something that they regard as
tasteless and tactless. I
think this runs into your
'healthy-relationship' vein
of conversation, so I'll end
it here. But I just wanted to
know, what drives these
idiots? I don't know how
someone could be so angry and
eager without being
permanently embedded in the
Bible Belt. Maybe you should
check the demographics on
your hatemail. I'd be willing
to bet that the Southwest had
a hand in it. Keep up with
the cynicism.

Concerned About the Gene Pool

Oh sure, blame the Bible
Belt. Why do people assume
that the stupidest people in
America are religious or live
in the South or both? And
what's this Southwest thing
— I didn't know there
were scores of Bible-thumpers
in New Mexico. I thought New
Mexico was filled with hot
lesbian artists in
lizard-skin cowboy boots,
crafting turquoise jewelry
for the upcoming "Sounds and
Smells of Santa Fe" Festival.

Ok, maybe that's just my
little fantasy. But you have
to admit, there's something
so appealing about packing up
and moving out of the big
city, with all its
heterosexual big-city ways,
and driving out to the
scrubby desert and pulling
out a canvas to paint like,
well, Georgia O'Keefe, I
guess. Vaginal flowers and
stuff — fitting, no? And
think of all that silver
jewelry, how good that might
look with a high-desert tan.

Ah, but all such fantasies
are merely skin deep —
it's like wanting to step
into a Smith and Hawken
catalogue, wanting to be that
waspy chick skillfully
planting perennials in a
floral skirt without looking
muddy and frustrated, without
actually being quite bored by
the whole stupid pointless
gardening thing, and then
killing all those impatiens a
few weeks later when you skip
town and drive to Vegas and
forget to have someone water
the plants while you're gone.
As much as I'd like to throw
off the chains of dull
heterosexual cowboy-bootless
city life, the truth is I'd
be sweaty and irritable from
the long drive through
Arizona, and I'd pull out
that canvas and realize that
I can only paint stick
figures. Then I'd realize
that I don't like vaginas in
my face, either on a canvas
or otherwise.

Oh, these trivial details
that hold us back from our

Wait, what was your letter
about? Oh well, no matter...

Causing more concern for the
gene pool than all the
Bible-thumpers in Arizona,

Fish With Letter Icon

Dear Polly,

Today is the day you can take
a head count of all of your
older, increasingly female,
less affluent, and less
highly educated readers. I
wonder what it must be like
to be ceaselessly bombarded
by the media messages
concerning the strange, new,
dotcom world and yet have
absolutely no clue what all
the hubbub is about. And yet,
even by using little old
ladies to make your point,
you have recognized their
existence to an extent
uncommon in our culture. I am
terrified of growing old in

Fortunately, besides the
Internet there are plenty of
other sources of trivial
misinformation to keep one's
thoughts occupied. Thanks for
your (understated) commentary
on the sorry and twisted
ideas permeating today's
popular media. But when we
are confronted daily by
horrifically absurd and
disturbing news and media
events, what must marginal
magazine marketers do to
attract readers, anyway?

Thank you for reminding me
that Freud is a shibolleth
for discerning cultural
observers. The meaning of
which I am still sorting out.
I'll cite Filler 5.31.00 when
I publish my paper.

A Loyal Ephraimite,

Richard Banks

p.s. Thank you for publishing
my previous letter, Polly.
What a thrill!. I completely
understand and appreciate
your response. And I have
debited my Fame account

(I only received one letter
as a result of my new
notoriety in the Fish. One of
your loyal readers whose
remarks you had cited in the
piece begged me not to judge
his character too harshly on
the basis of his published
remarks, which, he writes,
were taken out of context.
And, at his request, I am
begging you to be merciful
and pardon him his past

No! I say smite his very
name! Strike that loathsome
swine down into disgrace and
despair, like the groveling
beast that he is! No
forgiveness for the damned!
Let them feel thine horrible
wrath! Let them feel the
twisted grip of guilt and
hopelessness at their
throats. Laugh as they squeal
out their pathetic last
words, "I was taken out of
context!" Laugh heartlessly
and then calmly remind them
that there's no proper
context for the naysayer, the

Not currently juicing
adequate numbers of carrots,

Pitiless Polly
Fish With Letter Icon

Subject: Older, poorer, and

You bet your ass.

I had the misfortune to work
Tech Support for a major
Internet Service Provider who
shall remain nameless
(although its initials were
AOL) for quite awhile. And,
improbable as it seemed, the
old, poor, and dumb were
simply chompin' at the
proverbial bit to get online.

Why?? I had to ask myself
continually. If you couldn't
afford the damned computer in
the first place (not even the
cheapest piece of crap in the
Packard Bell line), and can't
even figure out how to turn
it on now; why do you do this
to yourself (and me!)?

"Well, I wanna git at some o'
that there free porn that's
supposed to be all over the
place." (And literally
expected me to point him
there, step by step, right
from the removal of the
computer from the box.)

"I wanna share recipes with
my friends, and trace my
family tree." (Your friends
all live in the same county
with you. Ditto for your
ancestors. Your family tree
is a stump.)

"I chat online with all kinds
of people." ('WELL IT RAINED
TWICE'... oo, stimulating.)

"There's news and information
out there that the TV won't
tell you." (Oh, yeah; like
the Jews really do run the
planet, that Elvis is alive
and doing two shows a night
on Mars, and that - oh my God
- Bill Clinton fools around.)

"I dunno; I just wanna see
what all the fuss is about
with this Innernet thing."
(Hint, chief: it's a newer,
faster, and more efficient
way of draining your bank
account and causing you
crippling anxiety.)

So - strange as it sounds,
the Internet is steadily
dumbing down just like the
entire rest of the fucking
planet. I don't know why it
should surprise anyone. Maybe
it's time for a nice,
fool-proof virus; spread
through some irresistable
outlet like can you
believe someone hasn't
registered THAT one yet?

Best Wishes

Alan in ABQ

Very interesting — I
thought only artistic
lesbians lived in New Mexico.
But while we're dealing with
sweeping prejudice, let me
say once and for all that I
have a big problem with
targeting the supposedly
idiotic, worthless American
masses. I'm not sure what's
wrong about being old and
poor, and, aside from the
first comment you included,
I'm not sure that the
excerpts you've provided here
are evidence of anything but
a provincial conversational
style that you somehow find
appallingly unsophisticated
or uninteresting. If you're a
black man, or a gay man, then
I can definitely understand
your resentment toward
unenlightened straight white
people. However, if your main
reason for disliking these
inconveniently chatty minions
is that they don't share your
sophisticated sense of humor
and taste in obtuse art films
and rarefied music put out by
small independent labels, I
can't really get behind your
cause. I just don't quite
grasp the teaming masses of
self-conscious, snide hip
fucks who get their panties
in a bunch over every mundane
conversation they overhear
about sports or the weather
while buying aspirin at
Wal-mart. These poor old
people may not recognize the
raw genius of Pavement, but
80% of them have more
compassion and understanding
of what's important in life
than you have in your little
pinky, and the vast majority
of them are not, in fact,
nearly as ignorant or as
prejudiced as you are.

The planet has always been
full of stupid people, and no
special little rarefied
community (the Internet, in
this case) is going to stay
special and rarefied for very
long, as long as the barriers
to entry (high cost,
difficulty) are low enough to
accommodate your average
bear. If you want precious
little circles with which to
share your love of young,
intelligent, cash-heavy
types, consider joining your
local country club.

Do you think, when these
people were so graciously
telling you about the
weather, thinking (correctly)
that you were probably a
rather lonely fellow in some
awful corporate office in the
city, that for a minute they
would have traded places with

Which, I guess, is why they
got under your skin in the
first place.

No offense, Alan — I get
letters like yours about how
fucking stupid most people
are almost every day. I just
wanted to set the record
straight and say nothing
makes me more discouraged by
how stupid most people are
than a letter about how
stupid most people are.

Stupider than most,

Fish With Letter Icon

 The Shit
Krushchev Remembers, by Nikita Krushchev (authorship disputed), translated by Strobe Talbott
Five-Star Day Cafe
Athens, Ga.
Salon's "Action Figures"
TV ad
Donna's Famous "Long and Short of It," by Donna Anderson and friends
Two-Lane Blacktop, directed by Monte Hellman (The Anchor Bay/Universal letterboxed edition)
George Bush, Dark Prince of Love: A Presidential Romance, by Lydia Millet (Scribner)
King Kong: The Complete 1933 Film Score, by Max Steiner Moscow Symphony Orchestra, William J. Stromberg conductor (Marco Polo)
Eightball #20, by Dan Clowes (Fantagraphics Books)
The ECW's Little Spike Dudley
Stan Kenton, City of Glass, featuring arrangements by legendary weirdo Bob Graettinger (EMD/Blue Note)
Comix 2000, Edited and published by L'Association, 2000
Star Dudes
Do you know of stuff that doesn't actively suck? Things so good they deserve to make the Shitlist? Send your suggestions to us.

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